Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by John Carl Roat on July 22, 2010 at 8:34am

Thanks man Jude Herpin died because every ovealya in his lungs was crushed. Several guys burned befor him. The Vent was 5 ft below the bendover in the conductor. In other words they built a big F-ing BOOM and he was the one it went off on Herpin. Youg diver with a wife and kid on the way. Sound like something you just heard.

A.O.D. had hired and Trained him, themselves. He was a new brake out they knew when they sent him out there he had no burner training. He told his Uncle before he went. I don't know how to BURN but I'm not saying anything, I'm going on the job.

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Permalink Reply by John Carl Roat on July 22, 2010 at 2:18pm

Thank You Mr. Flynn here is the updated list any more info please post.

John Edwards…Taylor Diving….injury…..1968
Jim Sugrue …….American Oilfield Divers....Death………3-1991
Jude Herpin.…American Oilfield Divers ...Death…..2-1993
Scott Merce…. Titan Marine…….Death……….7-1999
Michael Mahoney.....Bisso....Death...12-1999
Marc Begneaud....Cal dive Death…..7-2003: Rectifier Welding Machine in use. Company policy stated DC Generator only. Know the dive was using Broco Torch No Investigation published.
Tony Rosenbaum....Cal dive…..injury....8-2004: Rectifier Welding Machine in use. Company policy stated DC Generator only. Know the diver was using Broco Torch No Investigation published.
Chris Johnson...Veolia. injury.....11-2008
Ian Buchan--Veolia..injury...8-2009
Chris Hollifield.....Death...Veolia....7-2010


Chris Hill, Stolt Comes Seaway….Dead……6th August 1999
John Whitekettle….Dead… 21st November 2005, Titan, salvage of the Rostok in the Danube
Christophe Fournier, Hydrokarst…Dead…24th july 2008, cutting up a wreck in Marseilles Harbour

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Permalink Reply by Dive Diva on July 22, 2010 at 9:27pm

In other words he drowned, the aspiration of salt water caused severe damage to the aveolar membrane, which resulted in the loss of surfactant (the lube that allows your lungs to move) whch in turn caused a change in the surface tension of the aveolar surfactant causing an imbalance in the V/Q ratio. The end result being the collapse of the diver's aveoli.

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Permalink Reply by Dive Diva on July 22, 2010 at 10:01pm

This is a good example of the cause of a diver death being more than the end results seem to be. Flynn posts that the diver died in the chamber as a result of cardia arrest, John posted hat the divers aveoli were all crushed. Both stated that the diver was involved in an UW explosion just prior to his death.

So tracing the end results back to the source it's likely that the divet suffered cardiac arrest as a result of his brain not getting any oxygen (cerebral hypoxia), due to the lack of gas exchange at the aveolar membranes due to damage (collapse/crush), which was probably caused by the diver aspirating sea water while he was unconscious due to his helmet being off. All of which was a result of the UW explosion. But the official cause of death would still be recorded as cardiac arrest.

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Permalink Reply by Dive Diva on July 23, 2010 at 5:39am

John and Flynn have pointed out the events that lead to this fatality:

1) improper venting
2) inexperience and inadequate training
3) helmet off

the question going through my mind is, "was the event survivable?" did the diver succ**b to injuries from the explosion or did he succ**b to injuries sustained when his helmet came off? How many of these deaths involved helmets being damaged or coming off?

If the underlying cause of injury is one of equipment failure secondary to the main event than we need to address and resolve that problem too.

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Permalink Reply by John Carl Roat on July 23, 2010 at 6:47am

Diva;

HE DIED BECAUSE A LOT OF PEOPLE DID NOT KNOW WHAT THEY WERE DOING INCLUDING THE DIVER!

Frankly I do not give a crap about the medical reasons. Please I like you but what you have to understand is this business is built on HANGING PEOPLES ASS in the WIND for Profit. They do a lot of BULL S*** DUBBLE Speak write pretty things that are not enforced. Then pat themselves on the back for writing the pretty thing.

They get away with this because the count on the divers and supervisiors not haveing a NUT Sack. If they show a NUT sack they get less work.

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Permalink Reply by Fred C. Johnson on July 23, 2010 at 8:47am

John , that's it in a nut shell.
If the cutting was done on the surface you would have more safety guys standing around and telling you all the safety standards you must follow. toss a guy in the water and See no evil , Speak no evil, Hear no evil. And what the hell is the diver taking so long ? Safety ?? Do you know how much this is costing us ? Do you know how many kids want your job?
BACK IN THE DAY,WHEN DIVERS WORE HEAVY GEAR IT WAS WE WILL DO WHAT EVER THE DIVER WANTS AND BUY THE WAY MAKE SURE HE HAS A CUP OF HOT COFFEE WHEN HE COME'S UP.

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Permalink Reply by Dive Diva on July 23, 2010 at 9:34am

I am in agreement with you 100% John. But the problem isn't singular. The ADC, IMCA, ACDE, DEMA and contractors gave had decades to insulate themselves from accountability and liability. The CG and OSHA are ignorant of what's going on and are understaffed, underfunded and have other missions so they defer to the above groups for assistance in everything from writing standards to investigations.

In order to effect change we all need to take a pro-active stance. And we need to be informed of all the factors that contribute to the injury or fatality - who, what, where, when, why and how. So long as there are looph***s available that allow the system to blame the diver for his own injury/death then there will be no accountabilty, because if it's the diver's own fault how can the system be held liable or fined.

Not every UW explosion results in the diver being injured or killed, so the medical info is an important piece of the investigation, it is often overlooked and may be harder to pinpoint than training and experience, but tying the cause back to the event often makes the difference between benefits being paid to the injured or family.

We all need to be better informed, John. I know squat about burning but I have read everything you and others have posted on the subject, I'll never be an expert on the subject but I have learned and that has given me a better understanding of your CFR posts. Thanks John.

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Permalink Reply by Ethan on July 23, 2010 at 2:11pm

Another good idea would be to stop letting in people with a history of drug and alcohol abuse. I have nothing against all the ex felons, if they did their time then they did their time. But get all the dumb ass pot heads and meth heads out of the way and this industry would vastly improve. How could it not???
Actual inforcement of zero tolerance = less diver injury and death. Period Of course we would have to start by axing all the upper management and administration that's smokin it up for this to work.

Permalink Reply by steve king on July 23, 2010 at 7:26pm

whoa john... she's a diva, what does she know about nut sacks?!

i only know of one other woman that made it out to the gulf. twenty years ago, some 43 year old coyote ugly woman in long beach.

where do you start?

i'm still learning, i don't know it all. my girlfriend told me where handshakes came from. it made my eyes tear. i thought it was about knives. turns out, it's all about contracts and nut sacks... where'd ya think the word "testimony" came from? testes...

i want to go back to the old way. if i make a contract with somebody now, i'm doing it the old way. because i'm done f***ing around. and i ain't no pickle-chugger.

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Permalink Reply by JOEY C. SEGOVIA on July 23, 2010 at 6:02pm

All of the issues of this discussion from the deaths themselves to the scientific explanation of the causes of death and morbidity in relation to u/w burning are indeed worth analyzing and interpreting. My utmost respect to these divers and their survivors. As uncomfortable as these incidents are it is important that we recognize them and try to analyze them inorder to truly learn from them. I as many of you have, been rattled pretty good by some serious O2 pops. I do think that the preferred burning rod "of choice" by so many in the industry is worth pondering and or considering. An exothermic type of rod has made "burners" out of everyone. These type of rods as you all know will indeed burn through most anything put enough 02 to it and you will at least poke a h*** in it. Most all inexperienced burners burn in this fashion you've seen it 02 bottle after 02 bottle. A good burner can cut through efficiently and thus minimize the 02 build-up where he is burning. That being said there does exist certain types of rods that require more skill from the burner and have less 02 build-up. Many so called divers today probably do not even know this. Burning under the best of circ**stances is somewhat uncomfortable and I have always encouraged the burner including myself to first and foremost get comfortable before you burn hold the torch softly so to speak and also get comfortable with what you are burning into and what you are around all of this really does not take as much time as you might think even with limited bottom time. Also I firmly believe that it really does not matter how much a diver burns during his/her dive as long as what was burned was burned thouroughly and the next diver(s) does not have to chase a bunch of hangers from the previous dive then the job is moving foreward. I have always told potential employers and ops. managers when asked about my burning that I am the second best burner in the gulf... because every diver you talk to says they are the best burner in the gulf. Anyway burning is by nature inherently dangerous just like our chosen profession and the sooner one comes to terms with that the more comfortable you will become with all of it. I think serious procedures should indeed be heeded and most certainly followed on any burning job as well as any diving job. And any diver or aspiring diver should never ever be ashamed of telling someone your lack of experience in performing the tasks that we are asked to do it can be worked around and you just may live long enough to get that much needed experience. My respect to all and safe diving to all.

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Permalink Reply by Bill Gardner on July 25, 2010 at 8:15pm

Remember 'cut end Bs' or pinks?

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