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DIVERS PAY, KEEPING THE SCALE, STANDING UP OR GOING HOME?
I am FIRST a DIVER, second, an employer. When I bid a job I do a cost annalisis (what's it gonna cost) I consider the potential compitition, Who the client is, the difficulty of the project, time, equipment, expendables, wear and tear on equipment, overhead, amount of man power. As near to perfect as possible. The entire job is cost out plus a 5 to 8% error factor, a profit for the company to grow and a wage for myself as a diver.
There is no way ANY CONTRACTOR SHOULD PUT THE MARGIN OF PROFIT ON THE BACKS OF HIS DIVERS OR CREW. Now days more so than ever. There are clients and contractors trying to do this and if you, me and the rest of us let it happen it will happen. The pay for what we do and if you really, really think about the risks, costs and sacrifices we as the bottom dwellers face and experience. What we get is what is well earned. I have only met a slight hand full of divers who I thought didn't earn his keep and sooner or later he is weeded out of the pool. So ....... Dont' let any one tell you times are hard, times are anything, the owners, cities, states , governmental purchasing agents all have to save money yes, indeed but not on the backs of divers and tenders. ANY DIVER WHO SCABS A JOB FROM ANOTHER DIVER DUE TO SLASHED WAGES isn't worth much in my book. I loose jobs rather than tell a guy go down there risk your life for 2/3rd pay. or not scale pay. Contractors too, who cut their bids in half to keep guys working are going to cripple the industry for decades. The Florida diving industry is just an example of that. How can a diving co. bid a job 75 % of the rest of the bids with out stepping on his divers and crew or not have insurances? These days are rough but keep in mind the bottom line in most bidding hasn't dropped that much because the costs to do the work hasn't dropped that much. So make your minds up... SCALE! , STAND UP OR GO HOME? you can post the scabs name all over the net. and the company. If you want to see offshore divers or inland divers pay drop to $15/hr and 0 depth pay. don't stand up. I am a DIVER first! Your wearing a hat? your in the pool and responsible for the present day industry and the next generation of divers. This is my oppinion and maybe no one elses. I've been the odd ball more than once. AND FOR GOD SAKES STOP DOING ENTRY FLIPS FOR THE U-TUBE.
There is no way ANY CONTRACTOR SHOULD PUT THE MARGIN OF PROFIT ON THE BACKS OF HIS DIVERS OR CREW. Now days more so than ever. There are clients and contractors trying to do this and if you, me and the rest of us let it happen it will happen. The pay for what we do and if you really, really think about the risks, costs and sacrifices we as the bottom dwellers face and experience. What we get is what is well earned. I have only met a slight hand full of divers who I thought didn't earn his keep and sooner or later he is weeded out of the pool. So ....... Dont' let any one tell you times are hard, times are anything, the owners, cities, states , governmental purchasing agents all have to save money yes, indeed but not on the backs of divers and tenders. ANY DIVER WHO SCABS A JOB FROM ANOTHER DIVER DUE TO SLASHED WAGES isn't worth much in my book. I loose jobs rather than tell a guy go down there risk your life for 2/3rd pay. or not scale pay. Contractors too, who cut their bids in half to keep guys working are going to cripple the industry for decades. The Florida diving industry is just an example of that. How can a diving co. bid a job 75 % of the rest of the bids with out stepping on his divers and crew or not have insurances? These days are rough but keep in mind the bottom line in most bidding hasn't dropped that much because the costs to do the work hasn't dropped that much. So make your minds up... SCALE! , STAND UP OR GO HOME? you can post the scabs name all over the net. and the company. If you want to see offshore divers or inland divers pay drop to $15/hr and 0 depth pay. don't stand up. I am a DIVER first! Your wearing a hat? your in the pool and responsible for the present day industry and the next generation of divers. This is my oppinion and maybe no one elses. I've been the odd ball more than once. AND FOR GOD SAKES STOP DOING ENTRY FLIPS FOR THE U-TUBE.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Adam Broetje on
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Dale - Love the honesty and the opinion. Glad to have you on cDiver.net!
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Permalink Reply by Russell W Smith on
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Give em hell Dale, I think where its happening most is inland, divers are steppin on each other for a job that theyll probably quit as soon as an offshore position presents itself. They think if the get experiance inland theyll break out sooner offshore... Its a wh*** new ballgame in the gulf there still gonna have to pay their dues out there...
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Permalink Reply by dave on
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Divers will never hold an ounce of power without a Union. It's been tried before and failed. Because we can't stick together, we are all offshore at different times, the dive co. and the Oil co's don't want one, and most important, most guys are happy like it is. Work Hard, Get paid well. it's hard to Unionize with a bunch of people who don't care either way.
If it was ever going to happen it should have been when the North Sea Divers shut their entire industry down for more pay, or after a major hurricane right as the work starts and Divers are sorely needed. After the big K, everyone was paying depth from the surface.. now... only over 50. they make 2X off us in a contract more then we get, and without us, they would make nothing. I still think because we supply our own dive gear and do the work, we should get 75% of the Contracted Day Rate. Or, the same pay on a 24hr scale. How is it I'm offshore, do my job, then... I'm still on the boat, off shift and not getting paid? I'm still stuck out here on the Mother F***ing boat! If I'm not on the clock I should be able to drink a beer dammit!
I'm down to Unionize for off shift beer. Anybody with me? -
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Permalink Reply by Tony Boyle on
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Just a little story for you,
I work both Union and offshore. I am a freelancer that works per contract so I make good money no matter where I am. Now for the story... wont mention names, Union company has a job for such and such, group of divers do the job. They do not pay for the overtime the divers logged. The divers go to the hall. the hall fines the company a lesser amount then what is owed to the divers and the divers never get thier money.
Story 2 2 guys get a job for a union dive contractor. Not knowing much about the union its thier first time working for a company, The owner says they need to wait 7 days before they can join the hall and that they are working "free money" gigs. The two divers end up at the shop one day with the owner and the union rep in charge of diving. The two divers tell the union rep they want to join the union, union rep says dont join yet, keep working that free money deal till the owner says we are ready to join. 2 senior divers are in the shop that know better, when the 2 new guys go back in the shop and tell the 2 senior guys what just went down they say those 2 new guys are getting bent over. Lunch time comes and the 2 new guys go down to the hall without anyone knowing and talk to the head of the hall... who freaks when he hears what the 2 new guys are telling them. They join the hall and head back to a load of ass chewing but are now proud union members.
Story 3. A union contractor bids on a job only to have another union contractor come in for over 50% less. He knows that there is no way they can do the job for that amount. He goes to the hall and they tell him if he needs help with bids and rates they can " help him out" being one of the best people i know he kindly tells themselves to get F@#$ed that he wont do that to his divers. But the company that did the job for that way to low bid got help from the union as far as pay to the divers.
Take these stories as you will. Unions are good when they are good but can bend you over just like anything else, The real deal is within ourselves to say , No, we wont do that for that rate end of story... dont need a union to help us do that... just need to man up . -
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Permalink Reply by Jerry Babin on
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Now we're gettin some where!
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Permalink Reply by Reed Leatherman on
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AMEN to that brother
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Permalink Reply by Louis Toca on
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This Old Diver Story: In 1971 on DB 10 In 200' we wear setting up to use the
Sat system and new line up clamp for a welding connection 20" pipe.
Two Barge end to end my crew of 8 Divers on air work the davits on DB 10 the sat system was on
The Lay Barge we got word that the sat divers pay will be $150 less then ours and no depth pay.
I called D*** Evens on the radio to meet me on the gang plank on the back of the brag.
I was going to throw him over the side after a good wallop he shod have known better
he was a long time diver
I cart the crew boat several days later I was in his office and we was going to fire me
but I beat him to it I jest came from pay role and toll them to
make my check up to date I didn't work hear any more and several month later
He got run off for miss use of CO property.
I went back to work for J Ray Mc Dermott ===>>> but that a noter story
The moral of this tail is that Life at the end of a hose (My Book) and back stabbing go to gether no one will get a fair deal from the compney not evan in death ===>>> but that a noter story.
This Old Diver Story will be out on cDive.com on 6/9 or 6/10 feature story of the month===>>> ck it out
Good luck ==>> Remember Their or old divers and bold divers but their on old bold divers
H L Doc Toca -
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Permalink Reply by Dale Harris on
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Your RIGHT JASON, The worse it gets the worse the money will be. I and every one is lowering their expectations of what's called "fair pay". By the time this is all done. Farm hands will be making more putting in fences. This has happened in the past and it took 15 to 20 years to recover. Maybe it's a way to let evolution take place. Out with the old, in with the new. No matter what don't put all your eggs in one basket. Remember that one, if nothing else. Dale
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As long as fule and food keep going up, so should the pay. DO you think the "CEO's would get wet for the money their payin? Do they have the skills we do? You are the life blood of the company. Teach your young brothers and sisters to say no and when... If divers wont dive (considering their lives not the company is at risk when they dive) the company dries up, enough of this happens the pay goes back up...Get it?
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Permalink Reply by christopherliming on
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thank you very much!! i have just experienced what you are talking about. I recently was hired on with a company in the GOM, and was sent on a job where there was way too much talking on board. listening to the supervisor rattle on and on about the company and how they were underbidding this job, made me feel VERY SAFE indeed. the summation was that the company is underbidding these jobs with the energy company to stay afloat, and keep anyone else from getting any chance of having the job. that hurts all of us severely. the energy companies are going to expect a lower and lower price everytime. thus not only comprimising our wages, BUT OUR SAFETY!!!!
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Permalink Reply by Barone on
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Wow some one has a brain. Real people are harder to find these days or should I say real divers are hard to find. Schools are just pumping people out before they are even ready it is sad. From the first time I touched water I wanted to be a diver that meant something of a higher stander in life then being the average Joe. I am with you on the f*** you I am not diving for $15 an hour because time are ruff ya right heard that one before,when the guy telling you that walk away and gets into his BMW.
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