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Reading the Draft already confused!!!!!LOL
THe ADC is submitting a draft with thier Requirements and on the first written page - this is written
"No responsibility is assumed by the Association of Diving Contractors International, Inc. (“ADCI”),
its members, board of directors, officers, or publisher for any injury and/or damage to persons or
property as a matter of liability, negligence or otherwise, or from any use or operation of any
methods, product, instruction, standards, rules, or ideas contained in the material herein. No
suggested test or procedure should be carried out unless, in the reader’s judgment, its risk is
justified and the reader assumes all responsibility".
OK they want to write the rules but assume no responsibility? HELP
John R
any comment before I continue with this doc**ent?
I know they're watching this forum but I dont really care. We want fair not one sided right?
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by A.. Parnell on
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Good then they can read this !
Jerry that sucks if any and all of their members are not going to be responsible why should we work for them ??? With statements written like that maybe its really time for our own divers association where they do it the divers way after all in the end they are getting the lions share of the money made here and yes they also have the lions share of investment I dont see any free rides on either side fence but it is our butts thats on the line every time we make a dive. You get hurt and your career is pretty much over right now, no two weeks notice but right now. What say you ?
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Permalink Reply by Jerry Babin on
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I'm with you on this, and been talkin to some folks seriously but like alot of you remember not long ago everyone wanted this change, but when the pitcher mounted the plate, the batters ran for shelter. Its got to start soon, and now we are the most in danger craftsmen on the planet. No one can just jump in the water and do what we do. Including the owners of some of those companies we work for.
There are a lot of good companies who were conned by the ADCI into joining ( Its a power thing) but even some of the Oil execs I know and have spoken with think that things are and have been getting way out of control. Some of them are entertaining the hope that the divers will get together and work for them as a unified group again.
The overhead for gear rent alone is rediculous. We are a dying breed the kids today dont realize what we are losing, Greed and the quest to fill a log book has overshadowed the drop in wages and benifits as well as the respect we used to have when we walked on deck. My neighbor is a COOK at shoneys with 401k life/health and vacation. Even at 40 an hour for some of the jobs Ive done, by the time I pay for the benifits my neighbor gets for free, I average a whopping $5.73.2 per hour..... (Remember those 2 & 3000.00 days? these kids will never see that my instructors jaw dropped when I told him about some of those pay days.)
Imagine Health insurance, and even life insurance - The owners have it( but then they dont risk anything) descent housing and private schooling for our kids ( just like the ones the big guys send their kids to. I get to freelance for this little business in Mississippi every now and then, and though I dont make 8 ducks a day, the comp they give the team really says alot for the owner. I wish I'd found them sooner (like before I wasted 4 months in school). Its a good bunch to associate with.
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Hitting hour 2, and Ive only made it to page 98 so far,
anger topics so far,
1.Body weight - based on an old 2008 Navy Standard ( Im ex military, but I enjoy chow that aint served in the navy aboard ship) Civilians eat alot better! Anyone smell a rat!
2. Section 3.1.2 Military qualifications should not be recognised!( Federal discrimination act!)
3. Page 3-11 Though the ADCI is not a governing body only their EXAM (cost just a few ducks over $200.00) can validate Supervisor status
4.SCUBA is being again promoted as acceptable with aquaphones! (I want my money back - I was already Scuba certified in 88....LOL)
5. Sec. 4.3.1 Minimum team 3 1 Sup, 1 Diver, 1tender. WHo dives for the bodies when the Sup Drowns!)
Thats as far as Ive gotten, Watch your backs gang and get off your butts and comment on every page! call the Coast Guard, Navy Divers, and anyone else you know that dives everyones input is important, nows the time to put all your gripes on paper. or sell your gear or even better be involved in getting things changed.
LUV ya ALL even those who hate me.
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Heres a good one, I got to section 4, and got logged out by the survey!!! It said 300 words per section, It must have meant 300 words total!!! Stand up and be heard ladies and gentlemen. Even the Business Owners (in cogneto), especially you supervisors. The ORG is looking to put more on your backs and the Owners backs than seems fair even from an employee's standpoint.
Look I know I probably run my mouth more than is worth bearing but I know and honestly believe that there are a lot of stand up and good business owners and Sups with good intention watching this site we are the life blood of your business. We dont need a 500 page doc**ent that isnt even recognised by the US Government, or issued by a government agency to tell us how to stay alive. This book cant even save you in court page i says it in plain english in black and white, We dive because its in our blood you white collar guys keep the spud grease off the board room floors if we lose our living to a profit margine, eventually the oil companies will bring in foreign divers and foreign business owners ( which is already happening - remember when everyone offshore knew every one by name?) to US waters and even inland and we'll all be together again on the unemployment line. Our feilds are being over run by cheap labor and vendors who make 10 xs the replacement value of equipment every day. WHat happens when you cant afford the rent or to pay us. We will all lose. Business and our crafts have suffered enough because of the " Other Guys Greed" what happens when we look in the mirror and realize that We Divers and Employers alike are "the Other Guy"? Horizon was a reality check for all of us. WHen will it end? How will it end? If things dont change soon crew the end will get here before we see it comming. In this big picture, I'm nobody, un important to any white collar business owner, or oil exec, when I die most of you will not even realize I'm gone. But like Each of you in this business (white collar and blue collar alike), I am a father, a husband ( or wife to you ladies), a best friend, a son in law, a brother (or sister), just trying to survive another day for the ones who I am important to. Like many out there, I will work for any company on this planet, all I ask is simple - pay me fairly for the work I do and the risk I take for you, bring me home safe to mine as I would you to yours, and If I die doing what I love remember me to mine.
Good night my friends Tomorrow brings a new day and new dreams to share with my children. Be safe, be well, dream well and live well.
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Permalink Reply by Dive Diva on
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It is rather discouraging when their Mission Statement on page 7 includes:
"To hold all members accountable in adherence to the Consensus Standards for Commercial Diving and Underwater Operations."
And on page 5 is the above disclaimer, where by all those responsible for the contents of this draft and the actions prescribed herein attempt to deny paternity of their creation.
And correct me if I'm wrong but didn't ADCI want to Coast Guard to incorperated the 6th ed. into the new CFrs?
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Couldnt sleep, Yup, they went to exterme measures to prevent this review, from what I have been told by those "In the Know" to get this rev passed with out any input, and "AS Written"
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Permalink Reply by John Carl Roat on
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Every one of these Major Companies has a minimum surface Dive Team of 5: BP, Chevron, ConocoPhilips, CNOOC, EXXONMobil, ENI, Petronas, Shell, Statoil & Total!
The only reason I can think of and it is a guess. China, the ADCI and IMCA have been battleing to sign China.
Remember Peter J Pilkington is reconized to comment to the Coast Guard on the CFRs! He is the man that got the comment period re-opened. He is a member of this web sight. His e-mail is Peter J Pilkington
http://www.offshorediver.com/content/index.php?option=com_content&a...
PS it is my belief that the Coast Guard is as Fed-UP with the ADCI as is the OGP!
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Change has to come soon, ADC is 1. not a federal agency, and 2. most of what they write comes straight out of the ANSI requitements for training and the OSHA diving regs ( with alot of hot air and double talk added in).
These young divers (tenders ) dont really understand how all of this affects us, they just know $10.00 an hour wet is better than in a burger king uniform...
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Sorry I left out Peters e-mail Divesafe@msn.com
The ADCI needs to answer the question did China sign off and become ADCI members because the ADCI has lower minimum manning levels than anyone?
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Who ( what government entity ) Gives the ADCI the quthority to set rules and descide who dives and who doesn't?
And why do companies and divers tolerate it?
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Permalink Reply by Kyra Richter on
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Maybe a dumb question: But, if ADCI is the "OSHA" of Diving, then it should be more liable/responsible. I pored over OSHA web and they are responsible, even though they make the Emploer responsible for upholding their regulations, because the ultimate goal of OSHA is the Health and Safety of the employee. They also mention that for that reason, there is constant growth and change.
I hope the main concern/goal of ADCI is the health and safety of the diver.
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The main Goal is the title, while diver safety is the "Main Spoken goal", the decrease in wages ofer the years due th the conning of employers to "join or step aside" has been the visible goal as seen thru the eyes of those of us who bleed beneath the seas. THe ASSOCIATION of diving CONTRACTORS international - the title doesnot refer to the diver making the contractors money and paying his bills. No matter how you label it, buisness is buisness. Like a few in this forum have pointed out these companies make a killing renting equipment. If a connex goes over, 20 divers (usually new rookies) will kill for the chance to dive the salvage. Tenders grraduating these ADC schools think they are divers after making 20 dives in a controlled environment. when I got into this business, my number was 153 before the word tender left my vocabulary. THe ADC IS NOT a government agency, yyet we all live in fear of p*****g off "the GIant" Contractors in all branches of this business fell for a gimic to make money. THere were good schools before the ADC, & there will be long after divers wake up and start marketing their skills directly tto the oil companies. Dont laugh divers are doing it and the oil companies are tired of "$200.00 hammers. Big Oil is connected in a manner of speaking. in the BIg Picture the ADC is not and there is a lot of heat everywhere regarding the validity of the Association. Legally they have silently monopolised the industry using Safety as a control key" this monoply is against the law! THe CFR's are a Joke! on page 1 (the page no one really ever reads they deny liability for any and all of the content, however further on Inside the Dragon, they want everyone accountable. Read these CFRs really read them and comment on every line. Keep your eyes open and watch your back. Body fat is an issue. Im not being sexist, but using the BMI, it wont be long before they use it to push women back out of this business. trust what im saying, Ive seen it before.....
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