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New Dive Schools?
I am just writing this up as an open discussion, this is not an attack or a joke.
I would just like to ask you the prospective student/instructor of future diving education a few quick questions?
If a school offers training without any accreditation and costs the same as a well established fully internationally accredited school. Why attend?
If a school cites rebates or discounts to training but cannot offer them at this time, what is the likelihood that money will ever be returned to the student?
If a school offers a job placement/work experience/"pay your way" form of education. What contract/agreement or frequency of workvscope is the employer/employee guaranteeing?
If a school is adhering to a "code" or set of standards. Is this "code" currently the most internationally recognized and accepted to aid the "student" in his continuing career?
My final question:
This is directed to Mr. Jerry Babin. If your course is for veterans, why is the contact information directed to "parents"? If your course is aimed at veterans shouldn't they not require parental consent or query? This seem contradictory.
As a quick sidenote and disclaimer. Huge respect for anybody who has served and believed in something enough to risk their life. I am only asking these questions because this is an open forum to discuss new ideas, as well as advertise new opportunities. I feel anybody thoroughly choosing to go down this career path should be making the most well informed decision they possibly can. If that requires input from the community, then maybe that's the best way.
If anybody doesn't like/or has issues with what i'm saying, please feel free to contact me through this forum. I check in and it forwards to my email.
-Skylar Albrecht
Views: 1086
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Jerry Babin on
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Some parents assist veterans returning home with their educational funding for some programs that though available do not allow the use of "earned VA benefits.
The reason for attending and promoting "Un accredited education, is to force change. the accreditation process was started (from the conversation I had Friday with the Director of the Alabama Department of education) following Vietnam to prevent mom and pop shops from "Taking" money from vets and giving them nothing in return, again until this "Extended delay in accreditation" is changed vets are stuck with the same BS we are attempting to get rid of as professional divers.
We were advised once our State Private School License arrives to attempt to force this change by offering what currently amounts to no more than a Deck Hand course ( formatted by the ADCI) to anyone who is willing to attend but to list it honestly for exactly what it is. In my youth, this basic education was free to anyone who had the gall to earn it by learning on deck and getting a paycheck for their efforts.
No school that currently offers DIVER training graduates Divers, only Tenders. Civilians may be ok with being promised onething and getting something else, but it has never sat well with me that a TRADE ASSOCIATION could CLAIM the right to speak for me- I'm capable of that on my own. In addition the ADCI Sells services and claims to be NON PROFIT - this is a violation of Federal LAW and is being investigated. DIvers- (you know the men and women who bay ridiculous costs for educations) have no vote on the very rules and operations that could get us killed... Selling un monitored Supervisors cards on the internet- another ADCI cash cow......
We will offer (as soon as we can now that the State has given us a rule book to follow) the training most schools drag out for 4-6 months to bleed students, openly for $5000.00 in 8-10 weeks. Training regulations are clear and can be carried out in any format (EVEN WITHOUT A DIVE SCHOOL CERTIFICATE ) I have been a self employed diver for over 32 years and until I was offered a position back out in the GOM again the ADCI card has never been an issue with anyone I have ever dove for- experience and skill are always more valuable than paper.If your writing a newspaper report I would gladly pay for front page space. This information is available on the net if you know where to look, and fairly interview students who have bankrupted their savings thinking they would be that one lucky person to dive after graduation and realized that no one can promise you anything legally but it happens.
Change starts with one person starting a fire and others offering to take turns attending it.
Fortunately there are enough "Old Timers " who refuse to bow to businesses that depend on our experience and leadership. I do not "Follow or Bow" to anyone, I took the ADCI course for one reason and one reason only. I interviewed every dive school in this country for months. ALL stated that at 43 I was too old to learn this craft ( I never mentioned that I already had 30+ years under my belt), when I brought up the fact that I was a service disabled Vet ALL but one hung up on me.....
This is why Im doing this NO Veteran deserves after bleeding for his or her country to be refused anything within reason. No civilian deserves to be lied to and made blind promises to to have them taken away. I have contacted The AWS CWI in birmingham who will certify students welding, Master DIvers who will teach the entire Manual so that it is clearly understood, Sheriffs Office Rescue Dive Team will assist in training in forensics for those interested in the program, and water safety. We are making every endeavor to bring skilled instructors from all industrial crafts to this program so that every student has the fullest opportunity to develop and become a diver by graduation. Not just a tender. We have recieved input from NEDU reps Marine Corps and Army Divers interested in being involved. Change takes effort, not sitting on the sidelines ridiculing every attempt to make it happen. This behavior by childish idiots that make a living out of degrading the efforts of others are the Very reason the ADCI has made sure you never get paid what your worth, and the very reason the attrition rate amongst young tenders is over 90 %.
Thanks for opening this Door Skylar god luck in what ever you do..
All things change eventually, good or bad depends on weather you lead or follow - the Dust is always thicker in the rear of the line. I like and enjoy the fresh air in front.
Jerry "GreyWolf" Babin.
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Permalink Reply by Steve on
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The reason for attending and promoting "Un accredited education, is to force change. the accreditation process was started (from the conversation I had Friday with the Director of the Alabama Department of education) following Vietnam to prevent mom and pop shops from "Taking" money from vets and giving them nothing in return, again until this "Extended delay in accreditation" is changed vets are stuck with the same BS we are attempting to get rid of as professional divers.
What changes are you trying to force? Are you trying to dissolve diving associations that have been founded to provide a baseline of training for divers, or are you trying to force the department of veterans affairs to allow you to use the Montgomery GI bill as a valid method of payment immediately just because you want that.
We were advised once our State Private School License arrives to attempt to force this change by offering what currently amounts to no more than a Deck Hand course ( formatted by the ADCI) to anyone who is willing to attend but to list it honestly for exactly what it is. In my youth, this basic education was free to anyone who had the gall to earn it by learning on deck and getting a paycheck for their efforts.
you have now gone from saying that you are providing divers with 500 HOURS of bottom time in less than 6 months to just a basic deck hand course(which is not a tender) and you're also saying that you're doing it under ADCI regulations, which is an association.. which I was under the impression you were against.
No school that currently offers DIVER training graduates Divers, only Tenders. Civilians may be ok with being promised onething and getting something else, but it has never sat well with me that a TRADE ASSOCIATION could CLAIM the right to speak for me- I'm capable of that on my own. In addition the ADCI Sells services and claims to be NON PROFIT - this is a violation of Federal LAW and is being investigated. DIvers- (you know the men and women who bay ridiculous costs for educations) have no vote on the very rules and operations that could get us killed... Selling un monitored Supervisors cards on the internet- another ADCI cash cow......I find your statement in the first sentance a little confusing. When I graduated Commerical Diving Academy, I was handed a packet of all of my certifications in it, and 2 of them were commercial surface supplied air/mixed gas diver certifications from the ACDE and the DCBC. Please explain to me how I did not graduate as a diver. I also left CDA with a job, as a diver and now I work inland. I did have to wait, however until a year had passed until I was able to dive, and that was according to the federal goverment and the USACE regulations I work under. All of the people I have graduated with, who have chose to persue a job in diving are all doing just that, diving. The ones who graduated and wanted to goto the Gulf knew that they were going to go as a tender, and they were going to have to learn systems and wait until they were broke out, and now they are doing just that.. getting their feet wet. How can you say that you do not think it is fair that new divers have to wait, it is just like new graduates from bootcamp, they learn a baseline level of knowledge that is entry level, and then they learn the majority of their skill while on the job. From what you are saying quite often sounds like this "If you goto a "real" dive school then you should be able to walk onto a job site and be a dive supervisor"
We will offer (as soon as we can now that the State has given us a rule book to follow) the training most schools drag out for 4-6 months to bleed students, openly for $5000.00 in 8-10 weeks. Training regulations are clear and can be carried out in any format (EVEN WITHOUT A DIVE SCHOOL CERTIFICATE ) I have been a self employed diver for over 32 years and until I was offered a position back out in the GOM again the ADCI card has never been an issue with anyone I have ever dove for- experience and skill are always more valuable than paper.If your writing a newspaper report I would gladly pay for front page space. This information is available on the net if you know where to look, and fairly interview students who have bankrupted their savings thinking they would be that one lucky person to dive after graduation and realized that no one can promise you anything legally but it happens.
being an open water diver does not compare to being a surface supplied diver in any way shape or form. Please also explain the schools by name who do not give dive certifications to their graduates upon completing the baseline training for certification. You have only been a surface supplied diver for 3 years, and that does not even remotely give you the level of knowledge it takes to train students of any level. A commercial diver must have completed a course of training set forth by an approved sanctioning body. If you don't believe me, then you need to look up the USCG regulations on diving, if the coast guard pulls up and inspects your paperwork, and Joe Schmuckatelly is in the water with a hat on his head blowing bubbles, and his certification is "oh I was a navy seal I tought him how to dive" then the USCG will shut down his site in a heartbeat and fine and/or possibly arrest the people running the site. I think you need to stop living in "jerry babin-land" and really investigate what you are saying you're going to do.
Fortunately there are enough "Old Timers " who refuse to bow to businesses that depend on our experience and leadership. I do not "Follow or Bow" to anyone, I took the ADCI course for one reason and one reason only. I interviewed every dive school in this country for months. ALL stated that at 43 I was too old to learn this craft ( I never mentioned that I already had 30+ years under my belt), when I brought up the fact that I was a service disabled Vet ALL but one hung up on me.....
Why goto dive school in the first place? Your normal excuse is because you "did it for a friend" but you did not interview every dive school in this country, because I have asked mine. And you yourself say you did not learn anything at dive school, so what did you expect? Does being a service disconnected vet make you better than everyone else? or does it mean that you are special? I don't understand why a school would put that into consideration to accept you, although veterans preferance does exsist in a position where you are being hired, it does not in schools, and nor should it. I'm going to go ahead and throw the BS flag up long and hard on this one.
This is why Im doing this NO Veteran deserves after bleeding for his or her country to be refused anything within reason. No civilian deserves to be lied to and made blind promises to to have them taken away. I have contacted The AWS CWI in birmingham who will certify students welding, Master DIvers who will teach the entire Manual so that it is clearly understood, Sheriffs Office Rescue Dive Team will assist in training in forensics for those interested in the program, and water safety. We are making every endeavor to bring skilled instructors from all industrial crafts to this program so that every student has the fullest opportunity to develop and become a diver by graduation. Not just a tender. We have recieved input from NEDU reps Marine Corps and Army Divers interested in being involved. Change takes effort, not sitting on the sidelines ridiculing every attempt to make it happen. This behavior by childish idiots that make a living out of degrading the efforts of others are the Very reason the ADCI has made sure you never get paid what your worth, and the very reason the attrition rate amongst young tenders is over 90 %.
At commercial diving academy, I was certified as an AWS welder, topside and underwater. My dive charts, and chamber operations (basic and DMT) were taught by the man who helped develop the program , who was a master diver, then went warrant officer and retired in the 90's after almost 30 years of service, 100% in the diving and salvage community. My salvage and physics was taught by the Salvage Master who sank the USS ORISKANY, offshore operations was taught by a diver who has been in the community(offshore strictly) for 14 years. Now you're going to say that I was not taught by any level of certified, or compitent divers? By the way, water safety belongs to the fire department and emergency response, not police.
Now... Before you sit there and say all sorts of nonsense let me tell you, after 10 years in the Navy as a Gunners Mate First Class, 5 overseas deployments I joined the fire department as a water rescue specialist and I am also a CERTIFIED water rescue technician instructor. After spending 5 years in the fire department I wanted a change so I went to dive school, where I graduated then stayed a month as an "intern" before going to UXO school in colorado and was immediately sent to work on a dive team with ALL US NAVY Special Operations team members and my dive supervisor has 14 years offshore. Don't sit here and begin to tell me that I'm a coward, or I don't know what I'm talking about, or anything else because Jerry "grey wolf" Babin, IT IS PEOPLE LIKE YOU WHO THINK THAT THEY KNOW EVERYTHING THAT END UP GETTING PEOPLE HURT OR KILLED OUT OF IGNORANCE. How can I say so? because I have spent my LIFE working my way up from the bottom in some of the most dangerous professions in the world, and KNOW a babbling idiot when I see one. You're going to get someone hurt, and god forbid if they are foolish enough to come to your bogus school.
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You sir are a s*** stirrer, and misdirecting everything said to that end, trade associations sir have crated nothing but a bank for profit. The "BASE Line you refer to was created by Divers and mashed in with peices of a dive manual. Thus you have the rip scam promoted by the ADCI for the last 20 years. Force change yes let businesses return to serving and not controling Divers- their wages - their ability to insure their families like you and your friends at the ADC enjoy on your NON Profit Salaries..... Your a coward Steve spineless urchin who cares for nothin more than being seen but takes no action to support or bring positive change to this industry. As for the Tender class, since the ADCI and ANSI have established a base line for "Tenders" and not divers, yes, use and improve it. I notice your not a member of the Divers Association.
Until the Department of Veterans Affairs validates our "Request" to wave the 2 year general requirement and as Commercial diving is a specialized CRAFT and not basket weaving it legally falls outside of the current regulations but has no formal recognition. Thus the Delay in the DIVER Course. again dear ADCI staff member, Tenders if you ever one used to be trained by the diver that employed them but your too young obviously to know that. The ADCI was a ghost waiting to take form back then. Attending a school is no longer an option unless your business has a formal doc**ented and approved training format. The OSHA AND USCG Regs state that "Training can be OJT or in house at the discretion of an employer. No one wants to spend the money anymore. And until now no one has stood up or out against the ADCI propaganda. There are other Sr. Divers who are actively involved in this war, I notice you havent the Balls to post your communist crap on their posts......... Go home Grow a pair or retire and go away.....or better yet fade away. Your incompetence and ignorance on every new guy post is the very reason the ADCI must become again the servants they used to be. With power comes responsibility the ADCI has failed every student that has ever trained under their program. Tell any Navy Diver or SEAL that the ADCI training is more powerful than what they sacrificed and you'll pick yourself up minus a few parts and most of your teeth. Power corrupts Absolute Power corrupts absolutly..... The NON PROFIT ADCI is absolutely corrupt. Good night dear child do visit again when you get a formal education and grow up.....You are the reason I am here.
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Wake up and learn your wasting more energy on anger that could be used to serve something besides your EGO. You must be mad at your self so much that you would waste time trying to kick the goals of others into the dirt. You should visit the VA they have a great program.
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In 20 years of training divers, I have never injured or killed a student - attention to detail son. I was trained by Veterans who like I live and bleed every word in the NAVSEAOPSNAVINST. and SUPSALVINST. Just FYI son, the skills of your teachers are to your credit, thefact that the company that employs them supports fraudulent trade practices is not their burden, but yours. Here in the Community we live in, the Sheriffs office controls emergency water response they are paid, the fire and rescue here are volunteers.But we support each other equally.
Dont go away mad little one just go away....
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I still Dive regularly as a consultant and as a working Diver.
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Semper Fi Son, Anyone who claims to be an expert in this business is an idiot. I learn everyday. I make it a practice to study what is going on and be part of the solution not the problem. The school will be monitored by the NEDU, the US Navy, and USCG at my request. Nothing will go unchecked or un planned. Im a Marine before and after anything else. I salute your service, not your ingorance to the state of our industry and the danger the ADCI is creating within our craft. Find a mentor, and learn something more than decompression tables. Fair well....
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I'm not even an adci diver, I'm a uxo diver for the usace.. I've already told you my certifications.
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I was walking the Gulf floor before your diapers were dry, and I aint met an Irishman yet to whip my Acadian FRENCH ass. And Never by a boy. I grew up on the Gulf of Mex chump, From the time I was born I was on and in the water.Our Profession child is a Trades Craft and it serves an Industry children like you two are the reason sites like this fail. You fear someone bringing something that your entire careers might change, welcome to the world of the 80-90's When Divers stopped teaching tenders and kids like you took what was the worst in us and became that.FYI I went to the school to get a card so I could go out and do what I do, run crews. And No child unlike you I have never ridden in steel coffins to the sea floor. Im one of the AIR F**gots you refer to that paved that road for you..... The Students I refer to are the Tenders that work under me on subcontracts I freelance on or for me on my payroll. At 46 I'm still learning, the schools I would like to start are to allow GAS GODs like your self the ability to continue to have FULL access to information when your told your veins are too saturated and weak to dive anymore. One day child of the sea you will feel a need to give back to your craft and like me will post things that the sea gods of your tomorrow will not comprehend ( as things will keep changing) There is no law that prevents employers from training their own people in any craft or trade. But your too young to know anything about business, your too busy sucking gass at "9000feet" to know how businesses work - Oh but your Canadian that explains your arrogance. I have a few friends in Canada what shame you bring as you not only represent Canadian SAT Divers, but your Country when you open your youthful loud mouth. I will leave you with this, If you actually have the time to pick apart every thread I post then you must not be diving, SAT Divers dont waste their time even commenting or speaking to AIR F**gots like us old timers you enjoy nut knocking. The Day Divers stop challenging businessmen I retire, till then son get used to me I will still be breathing Air on lake beds and river bottoms long after your gas saturated body puts you in a chair or worse a bed for the rest of your life. Don't get me wrong Diver, I wish ill on no man or woman with the balls to do what we do, you are a credit to your craft, grow old and remember that others walked before you so that you can live in your time as you are.....
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You have only been walking on sea floors...never..because you're an inland diver, and you've only been certified SS since 2009. Just because I grew up.in the waters of the Chesapeake watershed does not mean I have been a diver for 28 years, just because I was certified since I was 16 does not mean I have been a diver for 12 years. Just stop acting like you are s*** hot, because everything you say completely contradicts itself, or is a flatout lie.
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